[Epoch Times, February 20, 2021](Interview by the English Epoch Times senior reporter Yang Jiekai / Translated by Qiu Sheng) “The CCP is actually a parasite-like system that is exploiting the wealth created by the pioneering Chinese people. They want Replace the international order headed by the United States and switch to their autocratic rule. But today many people still have illusions about the CCP,” said Yu Maochun.
The CCP has also established many red lines for the international community, such as Hong Kong, Taiwan, Xinjiang, etc., and claimed that “As an international community, we do not allow you to say anything, otherwise you will not respect our CCP and you are crossing our red lines.” Yu Maochun Said: “This is actually bullying. The world must be awakened. We cannot actually recognize the red line of the CCP.”
“This red line is not based on international law, nor is it based on international conventions. In fact, China has signed in these areas, but it has never been implemented.”
The Trump administration has consistently stepped on the CCP’s red line. Yu Maochun said: “This is not interfering in China’s internal affairs, nor is it interfering in China’s national sovereignty, because it is impossible to slaughter others and commit genocide in the name of sovereignty. Since 1940, internationally. The society has formulated such rules. This is my understanding of the CCP’s red line.”
“The international community should have due red lines, and we must ask the CCP to abide by these red lines.”
Earlier, Biden called China (the CCP) “the toughest competitor” in his first foreign policy speech. Yu Maochun said: “We must realize that the other party will not compete with us in a peaceful way. I think “severe competition” means that the CCP system will wipe us out forever sooner or later. The term we use It’s called “survival competition.” I hope the Biden administration can agree with our previous position and the degree of severity.”
Yu Maochun was Pompeo’s senior China policy aide when he was the US Secretary of State. Recently, he accepted an interview with the English Epoch Times “American Thought Leaders” (American Thought Leaders) program.
Yang Jiekai:The Trump administration’s policy towards the CCP is summarized in a speech by Secretary of State Pompeo at the Nixon Library. “Distrust and verify” means distrust and verify. Using these three English words to summarize, can you talk about the core of the Trump administration’s policy towards the CCP?
Yu Maochun:In the past two decades, the most important thing is the phenomenon of globalization. Globalization is not only economic and technological, but also includes changes in national borders. People’s travel habits have changed, and Europe has become closer than before. In theory, this is good, but the phenomenon of globalization brings a risk. It is the disappearance of individualization, especially the disappearance of the characteristics of each country.
Two main things are happening at the same time. One is that countries have an instinct to retain their own roots or roots. The CCP is doing this, and the United States is doing it. Let’s talk about China first.
Xi Jinping’s 8-year rule returns to Marxist-Leninist fundamentals
Xi Jinping’s eight-year rule can be said to have been returning to his roots, which is in contradiction with the current trend of international globalization. Xi Jinping once said “not forgetting the original intention”, that is, remembering the original ideology. What he meant was not to forget that we are a communist country and that the Communist Party has a mission. We must finally make the socialist system succeed. .
Therefore, the most important thing during Xi Jinping’s rule was to return China to the Marxist-Leninist ideology. You can say that in China now, everything is moving in this direction.
So we see apps with this kind of Xi Jinping thought on the Internet. They are re-introducing political learning, ideological training, and indoctrination of dogma. They imprisoned Uyghurs in concentration camps. On the surface, they asked them to learn some business skills. This was a trick. The main purpose was to let them learn Jinping thought, the Communist Party’s literature on Marxism-Leninism, and replace their own religious and cultural beliefs.
This is fundamentally relative to the phenomenon of globalization, which is a return to origin movement. In the United States, we have also gone through a similar process. Since the election of President Trump in 2016, we have also responded to the trend of globalization. Because globalization threatens the uniqueness of countries, President Trump proposed that we need Returning to our fundamentals, our fundamentals are to put the United States first, and everything we do must put the interests of the United States first, regardless of international or domestic policies.
Freedom to fight against tyranny Trump has increased U.S. credibility
Therefore, we cannot continue to harm the US job market, and we cannot continue to harm US sovereignty under the banner of globalization. This is the message Trump wants to convey, that the United States is number one, and Secretary Pompeo’s foreign policy has actually been implemented in Sichuan. President Pu’s this message.
For example, we created the Indivisible Rights Committee. The fundamental driving force of democracy in the United States is freedom to fight tyranny.
This country is built on this foundation, which is the most primitive blueprint for the founding of the country. Countries must return to their roots, their spiritual roots. China is doing this, and the United States is doing it.
Secretary Pompeo’s speech was a very good speech. He said that we can no longer ignore the fundamental political and ideological differences between China and the United States. Values, ideologies and governance models are fundamentally different. of.
A very important thing we have done is to restore the prestige of the United States in the world and restore the trust of the world to the United States. We want the world to see that what we are saying is not a joke. Back then, President Obama said to Russia, What is our red line in Syria? If we cross the red line, we must take action. Putin did not take President Obama’s words seriously. When they crossed the red line, the Obama administration did nothing.
The Trump administration is different. We tell Russia that our red line is ABCD and so on. We are serious. When they cross this red line, we will take action. We have actually stopped Russia’s intervention in Syria. We have done the same thing to Syrian dictators, including Iraq. We said that if you kill people with biochemical weapons, We are about to take action. We later bombed their military installations.
When we said that we were going to move the American embassy to Jerusalem, many presidents had said this before, but they did not act. This hurt the credibility of the United States. The Trump administration did it, so when we said we did Whenever something happens, we will fulfill our promise, so that the reputation of the United States has been rising.
Many people are different from what they know. Many people don’t like President Trump’s personal style. This is understandable, but no matter what we do, we actually get the world’s attention because they are taking it seriously. We, and the credibility of the United States has been rising dramatically.
The Trump administration has spent a lot of energy building and forming an international alliance
Some people think that we are engaged in unilateralism, fighting alone, without the support of the international community. This is untrue, because you want to engage in multilateralism. In fact, you need a goal. If everyone does not have a common vision, why do we do so? Multilateralism has no purpose.
The CCP’s challenge is a global challenge. We are the number one global challenge. We hope that the US allies can face this challenge in a multilateral approach. Many of these countries resisted at the beginning, so we spent a lot of energy to build and form this multilateral alliance, which can be said to be a sign of the Trump administration and its foreign policy, forming an alliance to face China’s challenges together. Some people say that we engage in unilateralism, which is not at all.
Yang Jiekai:With the departure of the Trump administration, what is the state of the alliance now?
Yu Maochun:Now it is better than ever. You will now hear NATO Secretary-General Stoltenberg saying that the CCP’s challenge in the Indo-Pacific region should be considered. This is very incredible. We convinced them. It was impossible to imagine him saying such a thing three years ago. He said it last year.
When we sent our warships to the Taiwan Strait, which was the international waters, we did this to counter the absurd rhetoric of the CCP. The CCP declared that it must have its consent to get there. We did it. After that, many of our allies followed us. France, Germany, Britain, and even Canada later sent warships over. This is leadership.
You just have to abide by your own first principle. I think we have done it. The United States must lead the world. When you lead the world, countries that love freedom will follow you. This is not because we are arrogant, but because we are a country capable of doing this. We have the power to fight against the CCP, and we have the power to stop the CCP’s global expansion.
We are in such a position that we can do things that many other countries cannot do. I think more and more countries are beginning to accept this. We have many solid allies, such as Australia and Japan. Some countries may share our ideology. It is not the same, but for geopolitical reasons, we also have common interests, so we also work together, such as Vietnam. Now the whole world is working hard to face the CCP’s global challenge.
We should be proud that we have done things for the Trump administration and accomplished so many with so many good results.
The Biden administration’s China policy follows Trump?
Yang Jiekai:Let’s take a look at the Biden administration. His policy toward China. They are also discussing making the CCP accountable and ensuring that they use this term to “extremely challenge.” The general government is not the same. The last thing you did before you left office in this term of the State Council, you also participated in it, is that you basically recognized what the CCP did to Uyghurs as “genocide.”
This is very meaningful. We know that there is the 1948 Genocide Convention and its significance. What do you think the Biden administration should do now? They also admitted that this thing is indeed happening.
Biden recognizes the CCP’s “genocide” and should have the courage to face the CCP regime
Yu Maochun:I think we should look at the significance of this matter according to the law. When we confirm that it is “genocide,” if it is confirmed, a series of international and domestic laws and policies should be followed up. The 21st century should not repeat the terrible mistakes made in the 1930s and 1940s. Now that there is enough evidence, let us avoid mistakes and make correct decisions.
The only thing we need to pay attention to is the political level, whether this leadership will work, whether we have the courage to face the Chinese Communist regime.
I think the best way to stop this kind of “genocide” is to tell it directly that what you are doing is the crime of genocide.
Tell it the truth. Only when we do this can the international community be able to solve this problem and prevent similar genocide tragedies from happening again in the future.
Of course, Biden is a new government, and they have the right to formulate their own policy guidelines, but in this area, they will continue to a large extent the policies of the Trump administration, calling the CCP’s atrocities against Xinjiang “genocide”. “This is not a trivial matter. The new government also agrees with our approach.
At this point, I am still very pleased. My best hope is that Biden will not return to the previous state of the US-China relationship. He will only interact for the sake of interaction and maintain the relationship between the two countries. I think the US-China relationship must have a goal.
The CCP will not compete peacefully with the United States as a “survival competition”
We must realize that the other party will not compete with us in a peaceful way. I think “severe competition” means that the CCP system will wipe us out forever sooner or later. The term we use is “survival competition.” , I hope the Biden administration can agree with our previous position and the degree of severity.
I think it is still challenging for the Biden administration to implement this. Recently, Yang Jiechi, a senior CCP diplomat, also said that we have these red lines. The CCP’s red lines include the Hong Kong issue, the Tibet and Xinjiang issues, and of course the Taiwan issue. They said that these are Beijing’s internal affairs, and the United States should not interfere with these. It has become a habit for them to look strong and bully others in this way.
They are used to telling the Chinese people naturally, what can you do? What can’t you do? They are experts in this area, and then they brought this habit to the international community and told the world what you can do? What can’t you do? What is acceptable to the CCP? What is unacceptable? Some of them are very ridiculous. They have always said that international ships, especially foreign warships, cross the Taiwan Strait. This is the red line of the CCP. Don’t go to the red line.
Nixon withdrew the Seventh Fleet from patrolling the Taiwan Strait in 1969
Since Nixon revoked the Seventh Fleet’s patrol of the Taiwan Strait in 1969, we have actually given up this right. At that time, we basically bowed our heads to the CCP’s bullying practices, while the Trump administration basically adopted a completely different approach. It is legal and conforms to international law. We have the right to pass through that sea area. We will not listen to the red line that the Chinese Communist government tells us, and we did it like this.
So we have sent warships across the Taiwan Strait dozens of times. Our allies followed up and did the same thing, which made sense.
The significance lies in two points. One is the CCP’s red line, but the CCP’s red line is also constantly changing. If it encounters international resistance, especially the resistance of the United States, if it is bullying others, then we have to uncover the other party’s bluff. You really care about the CCP’s feelings and don’t want to touch them, then this will become a vicious circle, and the relationship between the two countries will get worse and worse. So in the past, we obeyed their requirements to a certain extent and followed each other’s requirements Maintain bilateral relations between the two countries, ignoring international laws and treaties.
Last year, we sent our warships across the Taiwan Strait 13 times, and about 17 warships across the Taiwan Strait the year before. I don’t remember the specific figures, it is very meaningful.
The Trump administration repeatedly stepped on the CCP’s red line to ask the CCP to abide by international law
Because we abide by international law and our own principles, we have actually internationalized the Taiwan Strait issue. This is their best defense for Taiwan. It is also our implementation of the bilateral treaty signed by the United States and China since 1972 or 1979. That is to say, the United States and China agree to resolve the Taiwan issue in a peaceful manner. The United States has always held this position. It is against our national interest to use force in the Taiwan Strait in any way, so this is how the United States restores its international reputation. .
The Hong Kong issue is also a red line of the CCP, as is the Xinjiang issue. The CCP wants to tell the world that we are going to imprison millions of Uyghurs in concentration camps. We will abuse them and suppress their freedom, and you as the international community , We don’t allow you to say anything, otherwise you just disrespect our CCP and you are crossing our red line.
This is actually bullying. The world must be awakened. In fact, we cannot recognize the red line of the CCP.
So what I want to tell you is that the CCP’s red line is actually the CCP’s red line. That’s it. This red line is not based on international law, nor is it based on international conventions. In fact, China has signed in these areas, but it Never follow through.
This is not interfering in China’s internal affairs, nor in interfering in China’s national sovereignty, because it is not possible to slaughter others and commit genocide in the name of sovereignty. Since 1940, the international community has formulated such rules. This is my understanding of the CCP’s red line.
The international community should have its due red lines, and we must ask the CCP to abide by these red lines.
The CCP uses the Olympic honor and should not award the dictatorship
Yang Jiekai:very interesting. What is your opinion on Beijing’s hosting of the Olympic Games in 2022? This is the Olympic Games organized by a government that committed genocide.
Yu Maochun:Of course, we always want to say that government and sports are not the same thing. I support this view.
However, for the Beijing authorities, policy and sports do not separate their families. They will use this international sporting event to promote the Olympic movement. The CCP is great in all aspects and presents China to the world. No matter what it does, no one can criticize it. It, in fact, the CCP itself politicized international sports events. Just like the Olympic Games, as you said just now, when we give honors like the Olympic Games to the Chinese Communist regime to host it, and at the same time this regime commits crimes such as “genocide,” how can we be worthy of our conscience?
Yang Jiekai:I think what I want to ask the most is on the issue of the Olympic Games, what advice would you give to the Biden administration?
Yu Maochun:The Biden administration has not yet taken actual actions, and the policy has not changed.
International human rights institutions are calling on the entire world to pay attention to this issue. It is very ironic to allow a regime that committed genocide to host international sports events. I think we, as the government, should seize this opportunity to pressure the CCP to change its practices.
I think this may be the safest and safest way, unless the US delegation is cancelled to participate in the Games and boycott the event, but I think the cancellation may be unfair to the athletes. Therefore, the future Olympic Games will have a dilemma for everyone. situation.
We must be very careful and cautious not to grant such honors to a dictatorship.
Lessons from history: 2008 Beijing Olympics greatly enhance the CCP’s international influence
I think there is a historical lesson that we can learn from. In 2008, Beijing also held the Olympic Games, which greatly enhanced China’s international prestige. In fact, it also gave the CCP an excellent opportunity to imagine itself as the ultimate Chinese nation. On behalf of, basically, the 2008 Olympic Games legalized the Chinese Communist regime, making it a regime of the Chinese nation instead of a Leninist regime, a legitimate system. At that time, the international community also pushed forward. At that time, the international community hoped that through Beijing hosting international events, it could force the Beijing authorities to at least these reformers within the CCP to make reforms and changes, but this hope fell through.
So I think this is a historical lesson. In fact, the international community has been used by the CCP to increase the prestige of the dictatorship through competitions. When granting the right to host such international events in the future, we must be more cautious and careful.
I think we got some tips from the editor-in-chief of the CCP’s Global Times. This is a propaganda agency of the CCP. He said that if any country does not participate in the next Olympic Games, the Beijing authorities will sanction him or take similar measures.
I think this shows that the successful hosting of the Olympic Games is particularly important to the Chinese Communist Party. It shows the paranoia and persecution paranoia of the Chinese Communist Party. I think the world should take good care of this. One thing that is particularly unique and funny about the Communist Party of China is that it has actually committed many terrible crimes against the Chinese people, but it still wants to maintain a good image and still wants to be respected.
This may not necessarily be a bad thing, because we can use this to put pressure on it. If you want to gain the respect of others, you’d better behave better.
Trump designated the Confucius Institute as a foreign mission
Yang Jiekai:The Biden administration also stated that he will continue the Trump administration’s approach in terms of its China policy, but he will also do differently in many ways. One of them is a recent incident, whether American educational institutions need to announce and follow The contract and relationship between the Chinese Communist Party’s propaganda agencies such as the Confucius Institute had a new regulation in December last year, but the new regulation was later revoked by the Biden administration in January.
My question is which aspects of the Trump administration’s China policy do you think will be retained by the new government and become permanent, and which aspects may not necessarily be adopted by the new government?
Yu Maochun:Let me talk about the problem of the Confucius Institute first. What everyone needs to understand is that when we make a policy recommendation, the policy recommendation must go through a complicated bureaucratic process like a labyrinth before it can be formally adopted.
When we made a decision about the Confucius Institute, you had to go through these bureaucratic procedures. After these procedures were completed, it could be formally adopted.
The decision you just mentioned was cancelled. Do you want to announce the relationship with the Confucius Institute? When the Biden team came to power on November 20, the bureaucratic procedures had not yet been completed. So from the perspective of bureaucratic procedures, why is it? Was cancelled.
Of course, if the leader has this willingness, he can of course continue to let it pass, so it depends on the new leadership team in the end.
One thing we have accomplished is that we recognized the headquarters of the Confucius Institute in the United States as a foreign mission. This has not changed in the Biden administration. This is a very specific thing we did. We identified the Confucius Institute headquarters in Washington, DC as a foreign mission because it reports directly to the Beijing authorities.
As for whether colleges and universities in the United States need to announce the contractual relationship with Confucius Institutes, I think the bureaucratic procedures for this matter have not been completed, and it is relatively secondary.
Trump lays the foundation for China policy, Biden will follow
Of course, I still maintain a cautious and optimistic attitude. This new team will continue to continue the things we have done before. In fact, the main China policy, such as Taiwan, Hong Kong, Xinjiang, these major issues, they agree with our previous practice.
On some issues, such as trade issues, whether unilateral or multilateral is adopted, they have different ideas from ours.
Give them some time, and they will realize that we actually did something similar, and they will realize how difficult it is to accomplish this under a larger framework, but we tried our best.
Yang Jiekai:Returning to your previous question is to what extent will the Trump administration’s foreign policy be retained by the Biden administration, and to what extent may it be temporary?
Yu Maochun:I think how our government re-understands the CCP. We have laid a foundation, that is, its intentions, its strength, and its opportunities. We won this debate.
In the policy direction, our work has not been completely completed, but the difference is not far. This is the most important thing to me personally. I think this point is the new government will not change it.
The way anyone views the CCP in 2021 is absolutely different from the CCP in 2012 and 2015. The Trump administration started with President Trump’s campaign team, so he has a unique perspective to understand the CCP and its essence. Constitute a threat to us.
His understanding of the CCP was based on this field of economic nationalism, but later under the leadership of Secretary Pompeo, we gradually deepened our understanding of the nature of the CCP, not only in the economic field, but the CCP’s threat is also related to the military and culture. And every imaginable field, so our understanding of the CCP is a comprehensive re-orientation. Secretary Pompeo has repeatedly reiterated that the challenge the CCP poses to the world is the most important challenge and threat of our time. I don’t think it will change.
I actually heard President Biden once said that this challenge from China is ranked first. Now the entire US government is thinking about this issue.
The most important thing: recognize the essence of the CCP and distinguish the CCP and China
Yang Jiekai:Before we end, we can talk about the fact that the CCP has integrated into many international institutions to some extent, such as the World Health Organization. Recently, the World Health Organization has denied the US intelligence community’s claims about the source of the new crown virus (CCV). At the same time, the Biden administration has to cooperate with China on many issues that are in their own interests, such as climate issues, and of course help the Beijing authorities. This lobbying group is also a great threat and challenge to the Biden administration because they are very powerful.
So the question I want to ask is, if the Biden administration wants to maintain a clear stance on the CCP, what is the biggest challenge they face?
Yu Maochun:What is very important now is a new understanding and perception of China, and a change in the perception of the nature of the CCP authorities.
We can now distinguish between the Chinese people and the Chinese Communist Party. We can recognize the CCP’s intentions, its strength and capabilities, and its opportunities. It is very important and the most important to be able to see clearly these.
I think if you remember these important things, it doesn’t matter.
A very important point is that the United States is actually an international power. The United States has to deal with many major powers, not only China, but also Russia and Iran. It has to deal with these countries from multiple levels. Therefore, there are actually many ways to deal with a country. Hundreds of rules and policies.
The US-China relationship is extremely complex. This relationship involves thousands of issues, treaties, and rules, and thousands of policies have to be decided.
However, we must never forget the most fundamental thing, that is, we must put America’s interests first and America first.
The CCP has set a long line to catch the big fish and regards the United States as its primary opponent, unchanged for more than half a century
We are dealing with China and establishing relations with China should not be due to political expediency. We should not be dealing with China to compromise with it, and to establish relations with China. We must understand the results we want in our hearts. We must Remember this goal in our hearts, this is our first step towards success.
By the way, one thing I have to admire the CCP is that they have never forgotten their ultimate goal. They have been fishing for a long time, from one government to the next, from Mao to Deng Xiaoping, to Jiang Zemin. Hu Jintao and even Xi Jinping, this ideology has not changed all the way, this is very shocking.
Their policy towards the United States has never changed, and their internal policy of treating the United States as their primary opponent has never changed, because the positive incentive and influence of the American system on the Chinese people is great, and they feel very panic. .
So we should have confidence in our strength, our morals, and our strengths, and we should face the CCP in the same way.
It is to not only regard the CCP as a primary opponent, but also to understand that it is a regime based on oppressive supervision and deep fear of its own people.
Yang Jiekai:Mr. Yu Maochun, it is a great honor for you to be a guest on our program.
Yu Maochun:It is my honor, thank you!
Editor in charge: Li Hao #
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